Hook, Line and Sinker
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Gantry
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« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2007, 05:19:25 PM »

Okies, I finally had time to go over this.  Most of it you've explained, there's just a couple of parts:

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2. Does the extra scoring tile constitute a crossing and thus the end of a river segment?  If so, then does the player that places the extra scoring tile have to specify which river segment his extra scoring fishermeeple is on?

Not sure I understand this one. The tile concerned is under normal rules for placement and stopping farming etc. so a fisher would only be able to supply one way along a river, albeit on both banks if possible.

I'm not thinking of it in terms of farming, but like roads.  Roads have crossings like a bunch of trees or a farmhouse that basically mean the end of a road, and you count that crossing piece as 1 point for a road even though it ends the road.  Likewise, is the bridge on the extra scoring tile a crossing?  When you score points for each section of riverbank, I am asking for a clarification of what a section end is defined by. ie, a road bridge? the extra scoring tile's city bridge? the lake? spring? branch? etc.

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1. The Double-end-capend-city cscs (extra scoring tile) from river II might make things a tad complex, as a few of the problems arose because of this tile.  The Extra Scoring paragraph description says that it "allows the player who lays it to fish both sides of the riverbank".  What if there's already a fishermeeple down the river on one or both sides of the river on that river segment?  Does one or both sides have to be free of fishermeeples in order for this to be played?

This tile is like I say an extra scoring one as the fishermeep is in the city fishing from the bridge not on the riverbanks so this allows for him to supply cities on both sides providing that no meeple are already there.

Still I need more clarification, when in your last sentence you say "...already there." - where is "there"?  The city bridge crossing or there as in somewhere along the river segment adjoining the city bridge crossing?

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3. If no one plays a fishermeeple on the Extra Scoring Tile, but there is a fishermeeple on each side of the river somewhere along the same river segment belonging to one player, does the city count once for each fishermeeple (on each side) or just once for the player?

Scoring of the tile if there is no meeple on it is as normal, it only counts for extra if there is someone on it. Treat it as normal otherwise.

Still unsure, in your rules you state specifically, "...that allows the player who lays it to fish both sides of the riverbank".  This sentence piece to me is unclear in 2 ways.  Firstly, the points are awarded to the person who lays the tile?  Do they need to place a fishermeeple or just the tile?  Secondly, when you say "the riverbank", do you mean the entire riverbank segment (many tiles stretching in both directions upstream and downstream) or just the riverbank on that 1 tile?  Perhaps more clarity in this sentence would help.

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4. The rest of the questions are clarifications in the paragraph titled "Scoring".  The 2nd sentence starts, "For each section of riverbank...", does a section curve around a spring or lake tile and continue on or are they considered the end of a section?
 

Springs and lakes mean that they can be coninued around as per normal.

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5. What about the branch tile, is the straight side a continuation and the 90-degree river turn continuable, or is the 90-degree river turn the end of a river segment?

Again not sure what you mean by this one. As previously mentioned you cannot fish the branch as the current is considred too fast.

These two answers seem to contradict one another.  On one hand you say springs and lakes can be "continued around as per normal" which implies they do count as a section for the range of the fishermeeple.  Yet in the next answer you say "you cannot fish the branch" which means that they do not count as a section for the range of the fishermeeple.

8. As per #7, does the spring count as a river segment if a city is with 3 direct squares of it?

I stated in the rules that you cannot fish the spring or the branch.

I realize that, I'm not asking if you can fish the spring or branch, I'm asking if it counts as a river segment.  If it does, then I can count cities within 3 squares of it.  If not, then I cannot count cities within 3 squares of it.  Again, this goes back to whether or not a branch or spring counts inclusively as the end of a segment, or exclusively.

I think that it is probably very clear in your mind since it is your idea, but reading it, it isn't clear.  There are 2 issues in general that I have a difficult time grasping, maybe due to the wording.  It really all boils down to these issues:

1. What constitutes a "section of riverbank" and what does not, and
2. Are those "sections of riverbank" identical in terms of placing a fishermeeple on them vs counting them as a tile to measure the distance from when counting cities within 3 squares?

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canada steve
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« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2007, 12:43:27 AM »

Hey Gantry

I see what you mean, some of my wording maybe a bit contentious.

Queston 1. Any bridge is an end point on the river, in that you cannot fish and provide and further than the bridge allows. The only difference is with the extra scoring tile, where you have the ability to fish both sides of the river in both directions, so a possible to score four times from this tile. If you can get past a tile then it is not considered a end piece, same as farming.

Question 2. When placing a fisher on the extra scoring tile, city to city connected by bridge over the river, you can still place a piece even if another fisher is on one of the adjoining riverbanks as there are a further possible 3 riverbanks to fish from it. So "there" means ant other fishers on the riverbanks connecting to the extra scoring tile.

Question 3. To score the extra scoring tile you must have a fisher placed on it. If no fisher is placed on it then scoring for the city of that tile would be in accordance with how many fishers reach it and who owns the most and if the city os actually complete. By riverbank I mean an entire section from one end point to another.

Question 4. For clarification a fisher fishes along a riverbank from one end piece to another, bends, lakes, etc do not stop the fisher unless there is a physical barrier, such as a bridge in the way. The branch and the spring cannot be fished, which means that you cannot place a fisher on these tiles, they do not stop you from scoring though. So yes when counting along a riverbank you include the spring and branch tiles, even though you cannot place on them, it does not stop your fisher from supplying any cities along there.

Hope these all make sense mate. Please keep trying it and see if its any better.

Thanks
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« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2007, 05:15:40 PM »

ah that clears it up a lot!  with that then I don't see any other issues, gj m8
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« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2007, 11:30:28 AM »

Whewww, glad I got the wording right in the end  Cheesy
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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2007, 11:44:08 AM »

could you edit your first post to clarify these last things?
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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2007, 08:45:45 AM »

All edited and updated hope it makes for a good game.
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« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2007, 04:55:48 PM »

Okay Steve, the Variant Registry is ready for its first variant.  Details and a brief description about the variant will be done by me, and I basically just cut'n'pasted your text into a document, and added a couple of pictures.  Here is a sample of what a "typical" variant will look like, in pdf format, remember this is just a first draft:  LOOK HERE!

Comments & suggestions on this before we add it as a download? Since I did the work of creating the pdf, is it fair to add the Carc Central logo on top and a footer on the bottom?
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« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2007, 05:10:38 PM »

Title: Hook, Line & Sinker
Author: Canada Steve (profile)
Compatibility: River I, River II, The Count of Carcassonne, The Cathars
Requirements: new rules, new follower placement, no new tiles, River I or II expansion
Discussion: link
Download: link

Description:
This variant uses the rivers and a new follower, the fishermeeple, to add a new dimension to scoring. Players can place fishermeeples to fish a section on one bank of a river. The fishermeeple supply cities within 3 direct tiles of his section of the river, as well the player gets extra points for longer sections of river. Adding an additional element of scoring without requiring new tiles makes this variant good for smaller games with fewer expansions.
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« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2007, 09:25:10 AM »

I think that looks great Gantry.

As for having the Carc banner top and bottom no problem with that as long as the writer is clearly credited on there and maybe a date of original conception so that if it was ever picked up by say RGG then they would have to pay royalties  Cheesy

Good job.
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« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2007, 11:37:37 AM »

Ah a date, good plan I'll add that.  Also discovered that URL links in footers (MS Word) aren't clickable, either in Word or the resulting PDF, so I'll move that out or do something else with it.
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« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2012, 10:05:57 AM »

Added to downloads.
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