Carcassonne Central

While developing ‘Jousting Tournament’, an idea for another mini-expansion came into my mind. ‘Arise, Sir…’ (working title) employs the same mechanic as the ‘Jousting Tournament’ for follower placement, but this time allows a follower to be placed directly into a city that is already occupied (something that is usually illegal), without there being a separate scoring mechanism in place (as there is in ‘Jousting Tournament’). Have a look at the draft rules. There is no artwork for the tile (or tiles) at present, but it will probably display some sort of icon (probably of a knight). Comments and suggestions, as usual, are welcome :-)

Arise, Sir... Draft Rules 0.1 (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/arise_sir.pdf)

Hmm... sort of detracts from the normal way of stealing a city.

Did the French also have the same chivary system as the English?  I have no idea if the title and mechanic keeps with the French city theme.

And I agree with Scott, it sort of detracts from the normal way of stealing a city.  I'd also like to be a bit more constructive with my criticism and suggest an alternative... how about a mechanic that replaces a knight in the city with a big follower instead?  That fits in with your theme of knight promotion and does almost the same thing as you wanted - plant an extra knight into a city...

I don't think this entirely matters. Carcassonne was just one city, not multiple fortified cities. I do not claim to present actual historical themes, just a generalisation and ideas that people can identify with.


It is supposed to be different. That's the point! The placement of a Barn also detracts from the normal (old) way of stealing a farm! But, of course, it might not work in practice. At this point I went rambling on, but i've decided to repost that part in a new thread :)


This could work. Which Knight could be replaced, an opposing Knight or a regular Knight of your own with your large follower?

The details is for you to decide... I'm just throwing out ideas...

Arise, Sir… has got a new working title; The Orders of Chivalry. This title reflects a more accurate historical setting and takes the variant in a slightly different direction.

It has changed as a result of the suggestion by Novelty.

Novelty’s suggestion solves a problem that I originally wanted to do with the variant, but in a better way than I had first envisioned. The idea is one of Knight promotion, hence the title.

Draft rules of this new direction will be uploaded shortly.

OK, I updated the Variants/Expansions in development thread for the new name.  Do you have a tile picture yet, or are you so stoked about your photo next to the expansion that you are not showing us a tile image? :p

I've decided that my avatar really must go!!! lol

For the artwork, i'm not sure yet. I'm toying with the idea of using 'caps', instead of full city tiles.

Or you can use quarter cities (i.e. cities on 2 adjacent sides).  I like those pieces.

Here are the new rules:

The Orders of Chivalry draft Rules 0.2 (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/The Orders of Chivalry02.pdf)

Here is an draft example of a tile:

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalry.jpg)

The tile does not depict any new art, just the icon. Other icon options:

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalryicons.jpg)

OK, the same comments for Maulei applies here as well... the black circular lines on the icons are too thick, the icons need the tile texture added on so that it blends in better.  I think it would look even better if you used the blue and white shields, increase the size, change the background to white and add in the icon.

I like the red horse knight, but I think a simpler icon might be better.  Some suggestions = a long sword or broad sword, an image of the chess knight piece, a white fleur-d-lys (how is that spelt?) on a blue background (old flag of france, still used on the flag of Quebec!)

It is simply a draft at present. At present (draft) there will be only 2 tiles, although i'm not sure how many tiles should feature the icon (i.e. chivalry tiles), or even what type of tile works best (i.e. the example is a ccfr tile). There might be better options for this. I don't want to have full 'cccc' tiles in this mini-expansion.


I did consider the chess piece knight (the icon currently on the tiles was one I was considering for Jousting Tournament). A white fleur-d-lys (I'm also not sure about spelling ;)) on a blue background would be too similar to the Royal tiles in Treasure Hunt (which are golden fleur-d-lys on a blue background), don't you think?

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalrytile1.jpg)  (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalrytile2.jpg)

{wv  I like both of those!

I like the fleur-d-lys icon, but am concerned that it's too close to Maulei's Treasure Hunt. Not sure about the chess piece though  :-\

Perhaps the shields need to be slightly bigger?

Any ideas on what tiles these should be on and how many to include in the mini-expansion?

How about using the department shield of Aude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aude), which is where Carcassonne is situated? 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Blason_dpt_fr_Aude.svg/70px-Blason_dpt_fr_Aude.svg.png)

I have been playing around with the Carcassonne shield. This has a yellow fluer-d-lys pattern background with a castle on top. It did not really work as the fleur-d-lys got too small to see. However that shield is much better example. I'll give it a go and post the result.

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalrytile4.jpg)

Any better?

When was France divided into departments though? During the time period of the game, does Aude already exists, or is the area still part of the province of Languedoc?

Historical accuracy issues aside, I like the shield. Doesn't stand out as much as the fleur-de-lis, which could be a good thing or bad thing depending on what you're going for.

I like the biger shield size.... the smaller one seems funny somehow.

I like the shields. I think i'll go with that.

Any ideas on how many and what sort of tiles one should use these on?

I would think about 4 tiles for this mini-expansion.

I just had a thought... would the shields get confused with "Families"?  Perhaps there should be a white circle around the shield afterall?  Just a thought...

Changed the shields to match Carcassonne coat of arms (blue with castle).

Old shield top, new one bottom.

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalrytile5.jpg)

Or, perhaps this shield?

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalrytile6.jpg)

The red Aude shield looks best.  The others has way too much detail which is lost at that size.

I agree with you Novelty, the red Aude shields do look better!

This is my choice for the four tiles:

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalrytiles1.jpg)

Any additions/changes before this is finalised and completed?

I like your "shield behind buildings" image.  These look good to me.

I have been writing up the 'new' draft rules. I was thinking about the chivalry pennants. This is the statement made in the scoring section:


Should the chivalry pennants be worthless when scoring?

I think they shouldn't be worth anything.  Otherwise, a player will probably have a double bonus with it, i.e. a free upgrade of their meeple, which will probably win them the majority and more points from just one tile.

I agree, pennants should be worthless.

However, in view of this, just to avoid confusion, let me present a change to the icon:

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/chivalrytiles2.jpg)

Is this roundel better?

The roundel looks good too.  In fact I prefer them to the shields.

I think you are right. In this way chivalry icons will not get confused with pennants at all.

I will update rules and provide a zip file for download. Then we can call this completed.

Edit: This is now finished: The Orders of Chivalry (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/The Orders of Chivalry.zip)

this is a great variation . we played it yesterday and it was easy to follow the rules and using the tiles !

Thank you very much. I'm glad you enjoyed it :)

During the a discussion on the thread of Evergreen Forest, the rules regarding The Orders of Chivalry were brought up:

Drawing of a chivalry tile

"When a player draws a chivalry tile he must play it to an existing city. If the tile can’t be played, it is removed from the game, the player drawing a new tile as a replacement from the supply."

Deploying a follower to the city

The player may elect to use the chivalry tile as a regular tile instead of exchanging a follower. If he wishes to do this, the player lays it in accordance to the usual rules. No player is able to exchange a follower on any subsequent turn using the laid chivalry tile.

Exchanging a follower

If the player places a chivalry tile onto a city that he has occupancy in, he may exchange one follower of his own colour for another of his own colour. For example, a Yellow regular Knight is deployed in a city. On his turn, Yellow draws and lays a chivalry tile that extends his already occupied city."

Because this topic was brought up, I found an ambiguity within my OoC rules :)

It is in this line "When a player draws a chivalry tile he must play it to an existing city. If the tile can’t be played, it is removed from the game, the player drawing a new tile as a replacement from the supply."

This states that the player MUST play it to an existing city... it should read "MUST play the tile" (or something like that), because a player might want to play the tile to the road, or extend a farm, etc.

The sub title 'Deploying a follower to the city' is also misleading.

An update to the OoC rules will change the text to read:

"Drawing of a chivalry tile

When a player draws a chivalry tile he must play it. However, if it is impossible to play the tile (and all players agree), it is removed from the game, the player drawing a new tile as a replacement from the supply.

Using a chivalry tile as a regular tile

The player may elect to use the chivalry tile as a regular tile instead of exchanging a follower. If he wishes to do this, the player lays it in accordance to the usual rules. No player is able to exchange a follower on any subsequent turn using the newly laid chivalry tile.

Exchanging a follower

If the player places a chivalry tile and extends a city that he has occupancy in, he may exchange one follower of his own colour for another of his own colour. For example, a Yellow regular Knight is deployed in a city. On his turn, Yellow draws and lays a chivalry tile that extends his already occupied city."

Edit: New Rules: The Orders of Chivalry v1.2 (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/The Orders of Chivalry_v1_2)