Table edge
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sotie
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« on: August 05, 2011, 07:16:54 PM »

My family and I are new to Carc... but we're hooked!  How do you handle the table edge?  If it is reached should it be treated as a "dead end"?
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CKorfmann
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 07:28:53 PM »

There are different ways to handle it.  Traditionally it is a dead end and features touching it are incomplete.  Some people play that the edge completes a feature.  Some people play with a table cloth or mat that can be slid to one side if you are nearing the edge of a table so you are closer to limitless space as would be ideal.  The table cloth is the best option, but it can be tricky and doesn't always work very well.  It's really up to you.  

HERE is an example of something that does appear to work well.
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sotie
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 07:40:38 PM »

Thanks!  Grin
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Carcking
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 06:14:01 PM »

It's a matter of choice for your group. We happen to play that the edge is fixed and a tile that would overhang at all cannot be placed. The idea of moving a mat around is not a bad idea but I wonder what happens if players don't agree which way to move it. If players happen to be working opposite edges of the board can you move it to favor one and not the other?
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CKorfmann
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 06:32:17 PM »

I don't think the issue of table edge was ever considered in the creation process.  I don't know if it has ever been addressed in any rules or FAQ's that I'm aware of.  When you consider all software versions of the game (at least that I've seen), there is an endless table so to speak and you never have to worry about running off of it.  In the real world though we have to come up with an solution and the table cloth is the best I know of. 
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 06:44:09 PM »

I purchased a nice piece of the marine-grade vinyl at Joann Fabrics this weekend (with 40% off coupon). We just finished a game with it and it worked out great. As far as which way to move it goes... Our house rule will be to move it as much as allowable without knocking any placed tiles off.  Once it cannot be moved without a tile falling then the edge will become dead ends.
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Joff
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2011, 11:51:50 PM »

We have always played 'officially' when possible (however, this is difficult when using the River/River 2/Count, etc.). The rules say that the Starting Tile is placed in the middle of the table. Therefore, all table edges become the borders. We do not allow tile placement over the table edges, as that would force the repositioning of the Starting Tile. The Starting Tile cannot be moved - if it is moved it is no longer in the middle of the table  Grin
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jcardwell3rd
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 08:37:04 AM »

We have always played 'officially' when possible (however, this is difficult when using the River/River 2/Count, etc.). The rules say that the Starting Tile is placed in the middle of the table. Therefore, all table edges become the borders. We do not allow tile placement over the table edges, as that would force the repositioning of the Starting Tile. The Starting Tile cannot be moved - if it is moved it is no longer in the middle of the table  Grin

I like to think that you could have always started with a bigger table and could expand to anywhere you wanted, that is how i justify the moving of the mat. If only we could all have 8'x8' tables to play on, oh well...
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 09:41:45 AM »

Let's assume a hypothetical, unlikely scenario. What happens if you are playing on a smaller table and an opponent needs to move the layout to place a tile to finish a city he owns, but in doing so, prevents a tile being laid to finish your own city on the other side of the table because in moving the layout your city has moved to the edge, thus preventing a tile placement of your own?

Of course, as I said, completely hypothetical and unlikely to happen... but possible.
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jcardwell3rd
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 09:56:34 AM »

Let's assume a hypothetical, unlikely scenario. What happens if you are playing on a smaller table and an opponent needs to move the layout to place a tile to finish a city he owns, but in doing so, prevents a tile being laid to finish your own city on the other side of the table because in moving the layout your city has moved to the edge, thus preventing a tile placement of your own?

Of course, as I said, completely hypothetical and unlikely to happen... but possible.

Sounds like you should have finished your city one turn earlier...lol
Either way you are going to run out of room if you are playing a large game. Most of the time we dont have a tug of war with the mat but i can see it as a possibility. I usually play with people that are thinking several turns ahead and never put themselves in a position where they need to place a tile off of the table, Its just nice to have some wiggle room if you need it.
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2011, 10:33:02 AM »

Let's assume a hypothetical, unlikely scenario. What happens if you are playing on a smaller table and an opponent needs to move the layout to place a tile to finish a city he owns, but in doing so, prevents a tile being laid to finish your own city on the other side of the table because in moving the layout your city has moved to the edge, thus preventing a tile placement of your own?

Of course, as I said, completely hypothetical and unlikely to happen... but possible.

With larger games (which we always seem to play) it's not only possible but even likely. We ran into the exact scenario one night. Only we don't use a mat so what we were doing to accommodate an edge play was sliding all the tiles over. (Quite a project in itself). It had been fairly lenient - you know, I just need another 1/4" to get my tile to fit, etc. - so it didn't seem to be such a big problem. But we got in a situation where one player needed space to complete a city and another player objected because it squeezed his cloister on the other side. Both argued who was there first, and what feature was there first, etc. Then the player with the city argued that if it can't be slid we should turn the whole board 90 degrees so it would fit. If you can slide it why not turn it? But that brought another player's concern in because it would move him closer to the edge than what he planned for. It was a mess. We ultimately had to resort back to the start tile being anchored. We made it a house rule from then on (if it wasn't a hard rule already) that the start tile is anchored and you can't place a tile that overhangs any bit. You just have to plan accordingly and it's the same for all.

I tell you it bites too when you have a nice road with Inn out near the edge and someone places a tile that makes it bend right to the edge so you can't complete it. It can be strategic.

What we do with the river is after we've placed all the river tiles we center the layout as best we can by consensus, even possibly turning it. We haven't had a case where anyone has disagreed with the adjusted location of the river layout. And it's done before anyone can have any designs on the edge of the board.

But like I said earlier I think it's a matter of choice for your group. There is no hard rule.
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Joff
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2011, 10:59:45 AM »

What we do with the river is after we've placed all the river tiles we center the layout as best we can by consensus, even possibly turning it. We haven't had a case where anyone has disagreed with the adjusted location of the river layout. And it's done before anyone can have any designs on the edge of the board.
That's how we play the river. Once the river is placed then we adjust centrally and all have agreed the position. Once agreed and placed the tiles cannot be moved and the table edge forms the boundary.
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Scott
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2011, 08:26:20 AM »

We have always played 'officially' when possible (however, this is difficult when using the River/River 2/Count, etc.). The rules say that the Starting Tile is placed in the middle of the table. Therefore, all table edges become the borders. We do not allow tile placement over the table edges, as that would force the repositioning of the Starting Tile. The Starting Tile cannot be moved - if it is moved it is no longer in the middle of the table  Grin

I agree with this, and I think I read something about this somewhere but can't find it back. Tiles can't be played over the edge, and the edge does not complete features like the walls of the Abbey. I'm not going to hate on anyone that wants to play differently. I personally don't feel comfortable with shifting everything during regular gameplay, but I would be ok with shifting the river before regular gameplay. If you're playing with the Count, I would be inclined to start that on the edge of the table and run the river towards the center.
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CKorfmann
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2011, 09:01:26 PM »

I would be ok with shifting the river before regular gameplay.
I've done that and don't really have a problem with it.

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If you're playing with the Count, I would be inclined to start that on the edge of the table and run the river towards the center.
That's an interesting idea.
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2011, 07:25:40 AM »

If you're playing with the Count, I would be inclined to start that on the edge of the table and run the river towards the center.

This is what we do also with the Count - that is when are using it as a starting layout. Lately, we have been mixing the upper left corner tile into the bag and having the City of Carc "appear" where it will fit when the tile is played. You really develop some interesting layouts this way.
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